Curse

Alleji · Oct 30, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Just look at how many threads we have about maxing titles today:

Bots are getting unbanned because it's ok to bot to max an excessively grindy title, Gamer title seems more feasible to max now that we can potentially get 50 points per match in costume brawl, Treasure hunter/Wisdom are becoming account based so "yay I'll have them maxed", etc.

Everything because we have this other title track, called "kind of a big deal" and it makes the biggest shiny thing in HoM. Because of it, everyone is compelled to shoot for not for just one title, perhaps one they would enjoy farming, but for 30... and when you finish the first 25 you could tolerate, there's 5 mindless grinder or money-sink titles left (not sure about the exact numbers here, but for the sake of the argument) but since anet put this ultimate title in the game, people force themselves through the rest of the grind.

Now, that's what we have. My main gripe is with what we don't have, though. When anet chose to add KoaBD title to the game they made an important design decision and they have been reinforcing it since if KoaBD exists, titles must be maxable. As a result of that philosophy, we're getting the upcoming title rebalance, in which anet claims to make the excessively grindy titles easier to max. Earlier, we got a change to the "skill hunter" title, because it wasn't maxable in its first implementation.

What if we didn't have KoaBD? What if title design would not be restricted by the idea that titles can be maxed. We could have treasure hunter/wisdom 8,9,10,11 drunkard/party animal/sweet tooth 3,4, EotN rep ranks beyond 10, you could even stop skill efficiency scaling after 10 for the sake of balance (lol I just said balance in PvE). PvP titles are a good example here. They're essentially unmaxable (go away, starcraft >.>) and nobody is trying to max them, so you keep getting your favourite title higher and higher.

They could extend many titles like that, into the unimaginably high ranks... say treasure hunter (9) would require double the number of chests than the current maximum (7) and treasure hunter (12) would be 10 times the current cap, and if someone in the game actually achieved that, anet could add 3 more ranks without upsetting anyone else, because, hey, you don't have to max it.

IMO someone with lightbringer (14) would stand out just as much as GWAMM, and it would also identify the player as a hardcore DoA-er, rather than having this one generic title grinder badge.

Jessyi · Oct 30, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I'm kind of inclined to agree.

MisterB · Oct 30, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

The title system is screwed up, and KoaBD is just another symptom. I am convinced that the people complaining about maxing KoaBD would just gripe about how hard it is to get rank X in Y title, even if the ranks in said title provided no benefit. Or, they would complain that progressing past a certain rank provided no benefit. Or, they would complain about X, Y, or Z.
Point is, people will complain.

Šiljo · Oct 30, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

no1 forces any1 to max titles....

it's just what ppl want

MOAR titles and moar rankz!

Shadowmoon · Oct 30, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

so how do u get more cartography points once u explore 100% of the map, how do you complete mission objective after you finished them all. Honestly what you are asking for makes no sence. Also talking about balance, a r14 lightbringer would do 30% more damage than the current r8. Then there teasure hunter, eventually you could get the title high enough that you can't break lockpicks anymore. No limits on titles would reak havok to this game.

Jessyi · Oct 30, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

The title system is screwed up, and KoaBD is just another symptom. I am convinced that the people complaining about maxing KoaBD would just gripe about how hard it is to get rank X in Y title, even if the ranks in said title provided no benefit. Or, they would complain that progressing past a certain rank provided no benefit. Or, they would complain about X, Y, or Z.
Point is, people will complain.

Yes, but at least then you could say with confidence that their complaints are completely baseless.

I don't think anyone's stupid or naive enough to actually suggest that it's possible to stop all complaints from everyone forever.

Alleji · Oct 30, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

so how do u get more cartography points once u explore 100% of the map, how do you complete mission objective after you finished them all. Honestly what you are asking for makes no sence. Also talking about balance, a r14 lightbringer would do 30% more damage than the current r8. Then there teasure hunter, eventually you could get the title high enough that you can't break lockpicks anymore. No limits on titles would reak havok to this game.

I never said all titles can be extended infinitely. Cartography would still cap at 100%. Vanquisher would still cap once you vanquished eveyrthing. Legendary cartographer and legendary vanquisher would still be in the game. I'm talking about the titles that can be extended further, but limited only because of the existence of KoaBD.

I already addressed the balance point. Anet could cap all title-related benefits at 10, or add diminishing returns.

Covah · Oct 30, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

DoA Cryway LF LB12+ ONLY!!!!!!

No thanks.

Latham · Oct 30, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

No one forces any one to grind there titles to get GWAMM, its entirely player choice, So quit whining just because you cant accept that fact, and move past pre, or better move to another game,

And as mentioned, you really want people, LFP r14 ss as well for ultra CoP ?? Maybe r12 Asura for extended PI, Honestly, if you cant live with it, get over it, move on and stop complaining.

Ta...

MercenaryKnight · Oct 30, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Titles are a step in the right direction. It gives the people who enjoy mmorpgs to grind excessively and gain accomplishments. It makes them play the game longer and enjoy it more. If it wasn't for titles, a lot of people would have been bored and quit, knowing that their was nothing to do besides gain some uber rare skin and beat mallyx/ elite areas again and again.

Guild Wars 2 will be more like a traditional rpg which is what a lot of gamers wanted in guild wars. Thus it is a good thing for those who want the grind and to level up excessively with titles.

For all the whiners and complainers, be quiet and live with your rank 1 titles. Like you stated you don't have to max them. They are there for the "hardcore" gamers who want to max all the stuff and enjoy accomplishing all the extra tasks.

Spazzer · Oct 30, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Kind Of A Big Deal ruined the ability to add fun titles.

DarkNecrid · Oct 30, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I disagree, GWAMM was an inevitability with the title system that would exist even if it didn't (hey look I have 15 titles maxed lol), it's just a visible name.

Quote:

No one forces any one to grind there titles to get GWAMM, its entirely player choice, So quit whining just because you cant accept that fact, and move past pre, or better move to another game,

Yes let's tell people to leave a dying game (that makes sense), especially when it's the Title System that has betrayed 2 of the games advertised features. (skill > time betrayed by time giving you power, and no grind betrayed by having grind that actually gives you a bonus over other players.)

No one forces you to do it, but then again no one forces you to equip max weapons, equip max armor, put attribute points into your attributes, level up, or set a skill bar, yet if you want to actually get anywhere in the game and be max power, you have to do it, just like you have to grind if you want your PvE skills to be max power. Thankfully Linsey is changing all this because she knows what the game is supposed to be about (thank god someone at ArenaNet does.)

4thVariety · Oct 30, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I challenge the notion of people being hardcore games because they invest their time excessively into one game. I like to think of hardcore players as gamers who can play any game, any genre, not just one. Might just be my history of gaming in the 90ies though. Still I challenge that definition of hardcore, to me it's dumbcore, because you have to be dumb not to play all those other great games out there in pursuit of KoabD.

Minime The Shadow · Oct 30, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I tend to agree with the Op about the KOABD title track, it does almost make a few more people want to push that bit more to get something from it.
To reduce grind this would help, as people wouldnt need to do a title they didnt necessarily want, just to achieve another one.

also i really cant believe how many people have already shown an inability to read properly, and then reply in a sarcastic manner about LF r12+ LB no thanks, when if they had read in the first place, they would realise it wouldnt happen. But thats just people i suppose.

Pesi · Oct 30, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

comeon are you 4 years old and gotta be in focus? what is all the bullshit about hardcore players? seriously listen to yourself? HARDCORE GUILD WARS PLAYERS!!!1

If u cant be arsed to get 30+ maxed titles, dont do it, nothing say u have to.
If u havent got time to do it, pay someone to do it, if u want that bad. Cause that is what people do, to "look" good.

why dont u start judging people for what they are and can do, and not for something they have achieved before, or very likely someone did achieve for them instead?

some people just dont know when they play too much.

EroChrono · Oct 30, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

KoaBD wasn't really the problem. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the KoaBD title until Nightfall was released, and then the problem got infinitely worse with EotN. Of course, the cherry on the cake was HoM.
All those things did lead to current mess that is the KoaBD title track, real shame. The amount of titles is the problem.

As for unmaxable titles, please God no, it would only add value to the mindless grind and "show off" factor of the titles. Then again, it would seem to go well with ANet ludicrous idea of no level cap in GW2.

Aubrey · Oct 30, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

My opinion is that there should be way more Max Titles available than which is required to have the max KoaBD title. My reasoning is this: Most hardcore PvPers don't play much PvE and vice-versa. Those people should not be "punished" by making them grind through parts of the game which are not interesting to them. I'd be more interested in maxing my titles if there weren't PvP components that I would have to grind endlessly on. Just as I have no interest in being a max survivor nor level 20 in pre (which is basically the Legendary Deaths title). So, I will never get the maxed titles bit. Now, if there is going to be a significant advantage in GW2 I guess I might be persuaded, but honestly, I really don't know how people have enough gold to buy their way through all the titles... who has that much gold legitimately? It's kind of scary. But then again, I have a very full real life with kids to manage and a job to keep.

Alleji · Oct 30, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Re: "stop whining and grind" posts

I don't understand where in my post you see whining. I deliberately left out any personal information, the post is simply a critique of the current system because I feel the current system is wasting design space. Maybe you should work on your reading skills.

Maybe I should've mentioned that I'm not trying for GWAMM and not even playing the game much outside of AB and Costume Brawl atm.

imnotyourmother · Oct 30, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Now wait a sec. I love the grind. Just me and my mouse and my self playing by myself gaining gold by myself with all the drops to myself so that I can say, "hey self. Hi there self. You did great today getting all those pretty shinny things there. Thanks self. Want to give me some self. Na that would be selfish for me to keep them all to myself self. Sure thing self. Oh and what of your guild members self. Well self they are selfsufficient as there is only myself in the guild called, selfless."

Great story. Can you tell that I play a MMORPG? what the heck is that anyway, Want to know why I play with myself? - that sounded bad but.. cause no one would play with me - and that sounded even worse It was to be an mmorpg but it is now a mmoorpg. the other o stands for outpost as that is the only place that I can trade all my great stuff as there is no guild hall in pre.

So take it from me, it is a self taught game that is selfish and the titles are just for show. They really do not do anything for you. Some give bonus' and some let people show off. So if showing off is your thing then have-at-her

Mitchel · Oct 30, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

A thread asking...for more grind?